Mass dump at Wied Incita

Write here your own ideas and practical suggestions of how to improve the Maltese Environment.

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LR
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Post by LR » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:09 pm

hmm mid dehra some land rover owner also found this forum... it seems that it is increasing in popularity MWP Admin.. mhux ahjar heq :)

yes please ta... register and open an account... more clear like that...

as far as I know (and i could be very wrong here) the kennedy grove area is being used as part of the 34u Campain as part of the afforestation project... I did recall someone telling me that some species was found though kieku hekk they would be planting trees in the same place...

I mean that place was a dumpsite pure and proper and though it smelt bad it was good for us because we could play there to our heart's content without any hassles from anyone. Then it was used for regeneration and though yes it did frustrate me in a way, at the same time i am happy that it is being used for something other than a dumpsite..

My question is.. why use a small pocket of land for an afforestation project when u have Maghtab around 2km away which is surely in a bigger need of regeneration... In addition Maghtab shows from outer space nahseb while the small dumpsite in Kennedy grove nahseb 99 % of the population no one knew about it..

But anyway like i said before I am happy that at least it is being done up and trees are planted again...

wolf
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Post by wolf » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:21 pm

Dear nameless guest

You are wrong that LR and friends were on dumped soil - whenever I see people offroading on dumped soil I just keep quiet - but when offroaders veer onto garigue then sorry I do not keep silent because that is tantamount to being a partner in crime.
I repeat that offroading on garigue is illegal.
Another thing there are a few abandoned hard stone quarries with easy access ( I was in one last Saturday ) where one can offroad with relative ease - I suppose the best way is to search out the owner/s. No ( as you call them ) extreme greenies would object.
Forget about dealing with the authorities - the authorities are only concerned with hunters votes and speculators profits.

Listen guys I really have no problem with you at all - as long as you keep to places which are already disturbed to a greater ( rather than lesser ) extent

Wolf

LR
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Post by LR » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:40 pm

veru Wolf

to be honest i had another impression this time a year ago... anyway insomma that is past...

on another note if u find abandoned quarries and other places already disturbed to a greater ( rather than lesser ) extent where we can practice our hobby please let me know.. I will really appreciate that..

From my part i will try to make sure that I am more aware on what i am stepping on and will avoid as much as I can any vegetation which I THINK is endemic or endangered.

Looking around this site has helped me a lot to be honest and again i congratulate stephen on his work... Progett ta veru dan... Maybe you should apply for EU funding man since something like this site is more useful than many other projects that receive EU funds..and stephen I am not joking here.. Maybe you should contact PPCD and they might lead you under some programme for small amounts of funding which would surely help you out. Since i recall that you work within Government (same as I for that matter)I am sure that you know who they are.

Ah wolf no need to get offended about the extreme greenie thing.. As my nameless brother in arms I have always been on the receiving end of comments by yes why not call them extreme greenies.. I already mentioned the gentleman on the sunday times who is considered to be a hero by many, (my impression at least) who continuously uses his power of the press to put us in a bad light.
I remember another instance where offroaders had been accused of vandalising the afforestation project in mellieha.. Now in the case of the latter i think i can vouch for that since if it had been offroaders they would have easily been seen since that old road (yes that is a road believe it or not and IMO a stupid place to plant trees. Would love to see trees planted in the middle of psaila street. ) is easily visible.

Examples such as the above force us to be wary of extreme greenies ( to keep on using the same term) since we have always been on the recieving end without having the proper chance to explain things.
I just want to point out that i have a lot of friends who are very green oriented apart from actively participating in green NGO's and yes i debate with on a lot of issues since they can debate objectively. And that thank god I am seeing the same attitude here in this forum. Something which is making me come and post my thoughts here. If i though that this was extremist in my regard I myself would not have posted again.

wolf
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Post by wolf » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:34 pm

LR - your comments do make a lot of sense.
And yes - Alan Deidun is a hero of sorts believe me he keeps lots of people at MEPA sitting not so comfortably on their sorry asses - he also speaks out openly where others choose to hide - it is stupid as some guys did on one of your fora to offfend the guy etc ( I have seen such threads ) Your problem ( if it can be called that ) is not to place yourselves in the same position ( should I say corner ? ) as hunters and be civil EVEN when offroaders consider themselves safe in their own fora. As for Maghtab yes I bet a part of it could be turned into an offroading site but it seems dear George has this stupid grandiose plan to turn it into the world's most magnificent park - personally I do not believe this --- and the artists' impressions which appeared in the Times recently looked exactly like.....er...a covered dump !!!
I strongly suggest you do identify a used hardstone quarry / agree terms with the owner/s and landscape it or make whatever obstacles you wish in it ....but as I said do not push yourselves into the corner that hunters trappers have done so successfully to themselves - I am acquainted with a few offroaders and I will say openly that you are ( in general ) a different breed from the hunters - you are usually far better educated and some of you ( not all ) have the environment at heart too - though interpretations as to what environment is may differ. It is up to you guys to come up with an eco-friendly solution and disused quarries come three a penny.....

Wolf

LR
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Post by LR » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:51 pm

thanks wolf...

I am happy that we see eye to eye on certain issues...

Re alan well I do think that it is the wrong way to tackle issues since sometimes IMO he verges on the militant and very extremist side. That I think does not work nevertheless I do see that people like him are needed.

and i thank you for the comments about offroaders in general. Believe me the majority of us just want to practice the sport we love without causing hindrance or annoyance to anyone as much as possible. Having said that it takes effort from all stakeholders to ensure that the countryside is enjoyed by all who want to enjoy with the minimum of annoyance to others.

And yes i do agree that it is stupid to offend the guy. However in every organisation there is the good, the bad and the ugly.

I believe that the appropriate words in this scenario are tolerance and acceptance from all parties.

wolf
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Post by wolf » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:59 pm

perhaps Alan sometimes verges on what you call militant....just maybe. There is very little else for him to do in a country where the Environment Ministry is anything but that...where we have a government with one of its stated three pilars being the environment ( I wonder if anyone takes this seriously any more after last years infamous extension of the development zones and now The Times is reporting a glut of vacant newly built property when no one has started ihammel anywhere in the new zones ) ...add to that an opposition which has no credible green options or policy - the net result is that the only way to change things is to raise public awareness of things environmental

ps... I am not AD or Radical Right either !!

wolf

Guest
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Post by Guest » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:54 am

hi guys

dear wolf i will remain guest in this forum, as regarding to what sort of terrain LR was on with his vehicle, i congrulate you for your determination, as i have used the said lane quite a several times, and i can tell you exactly from what stages the soil passed, but since you are ashamed to be called greenie, its to no use to repeat that the soil was dumped over there to block the road and started taking life since the path was abondened by the lane users. And btw if you don't believe that offroaders will ever get attacked in their grounds too, sorry mate you are already doing it!! A public path is our grounds too, and as we gave it breath this started getting green as by nature it will ever do.

I am one that try to respect nature, but seems that my efforts will always be in vain!!

guest

LR
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Post by LR » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:19 am

mela di parti tieghi if u do not want to register please do not post...

and please you do not need to defend me or anything.... In this case you are both right... There is an area where there was dumped soil and that for me is no harm.

In the same place we did veer off the track and might be that we ended up on the garigue.. and if that is the case it is wrong and I admit it...

What is wrong is wrong and there is no reason to try and justify it... If I am right no god almight is going to tell me I am wrong but if i am in the wrong ( whether intentional or not) i have to admit..

So please nameless guest be more factual in your posts...

Ian

wolf
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Post by wolf » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:05 pm

LR - I agree with your post but not regrettably with your comrade in arms'.....

wolf

LR
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Post by LR » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:41 pm

ifhem wolf you would agree with me heq. I am basically admitting that I MIGHT have ventured off the track and stepped on garigue.

I am saying that i might as to be honest i still have to check the photo and see where the place was exactly and go to verify if that was garigue or not. I am not doubting your word however i do like to find out things for myself.

to get back to the issue of deidun and that he keeps Mepa on edge, I have to agree with you on this since that is pretty much what i have heard as well. However it might also happen that it will be the same case as the big bad wolf story... when people complain and bitch too much about things they lose credibility. This of course is my opinion and I might be completely wrong in this case.

Well yes I think that while Alan is surely a great crusader in his own right, always pointing out other people's negativities will make him a rather unpopular bloke. Jien i tend to subscribe to the train of thought that 'biex tiskongra trid tkun pur'. However ultimately it is each one unto his own.

wolf
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Post by wolf » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:48 am

LR
again I tend to agree with most of your points - remember we said let bygones be bygones so what happened last year is history.

wolf

LR
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Post by LR » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:05 am

well yes wolf we did say so.... so yes let us let bygones be bygones...

:)

Guest
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Post by Guest » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:07 pm

hi guys

hi LR no i' not defending you, i would like to defend all other green lane users like myself!! I agree too that driving on the garigue is illegal and harmful, and always try to keep to the minimum doing, myself personally and any other around me.

But what is a green lane, so it must be, and if ever this is partially disabonded by green lane users temporarily, and nature starts to claim it back, it does not mean that we lost it right of use!! there is a clear path leading from Zebbug to Attard, and this must not be lost because some idiot dumps some soil in it, to make it his private property!! Nor a path can be lost because nature claims it!

Personally i have tried to avoid damging nature, since i know what harm can be done, example i avoid the offroad MECCA in winter just because i know what harm can be done to it if it starts raining, Even though it seems like few of the greens know that our mecca was ruined when the rubble wals where dismantled, and the place started to get down gradually altogether!!

I agree with the admisitrator, sometimes if we offroaders behave irresponsibly, we can disturb the lanes so much that you cannot even walk in them, but there are extremist in all sports, controlling their needs is the game!!

as always i'll remain
Guest

LR
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Post by LR » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:48 pm

eh ok Mr Guest

hawn naqbel mieghek.. it might be that we did not understand each other...

Yes a legal right of way as in a track marked on a map has a right of use.. and that cannot be disputed in any way...

dumping soil or closing off a public road is a definite no no in my books and that is something that even NGO's like the ramblers are always noting.. Rights of way in the countryside is a sagrosanto right of all and no hunter, farmer, developer or whoever has the right to close it off...Private property is private and should be respected but public is public and should remain so...

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